jana_the_stranger · Jan 12, 2007, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

No, weapon requirements don't matter. Increasing your weapon mastery attribute increases damage. At 12 weapon mastery you deal 100% of the listed damage; at 16 you deal 115%.

how do you know that?

jana_the_stranger · Jan 12, 2007, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

To the OP: these users that say strength affects all hits are wrong. please do not believe them. Strength only affects attack skills.

Strength is a Warrior???s primary only attribute. It gives a Warrior armor penetration when using attack skills. Armor penetration lowers the effective defense of your target which raises your damage output. Since the Warrior skill list is full of attack skills, it???s of great benefit to any Warrior that wants to deal damage in any way. And, since it???s also linked to a wide variety of useful skills, it???s altogether something that no primary Warrior should pass up without a very good reason.

thats what you can find about it on this site.

Savio · Jan 12, 2007, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Because that's what the description of the weapon attributes say, and I've tested it myself.

Quote:

Swordsmanship increases the damage you do with swords and your chance to inflict a critical hit when using a sword. Many skills, especially sword attacks skills, become more effective with higher Swordsmanship.

[wiki]Damage[/wiki]
[wiki]Damage Rating progression[/wiki] (look at the last chart)

At level 20, rank 0 in a weapon, you deal 35% of listed damage.

Quote:

Armor penetration lowers the effective defense of your target which raises your damage output.

Increasing your weapon attribute by 1 increases your overall damage by about 3%, as opposed to increasing your Strength by 1 and getting about a 1% increase - which is only during attack skills. Really, the only reasons you use Strength is for the skills (and most useful Strength-based skills don't need high Strength to use) and if you have nothing else to put the points in.

Horseman Of War · Jan 12, 2007, 09:53 PM // 21:53

wow it took 2 pages just to throw up that damage chart link? You guys like to toy with the noobish huh?

Savio- how exactly do you know that there is a "disheartening amount" of 16Str warriors? You must hang around some very odd pug spots. All numbers aside, the OP could have been presented this information in a much less cynical manner.

jana_the_stranger · Jan 12, 2007, 09:56 PM // 21:56

well in my opinion when you have req of weapon it doesnt matter how much you have 9 or 16, you still have to do same damage.

Only your skills may be more powerfull with higher attribute

but a well good to know

Savio · Jan 12, 2007, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by jana_the_stranger

well in my opinion when you have req of weapon it doesnt matter how much you have 9 or 16, you still have to do same damage.

Your "opinion" is wrong. If you want max damage, you go with 16 in your weapon attribute. Low-requirement weapons being stronger is a myth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Of War

wow it took 2 pages just to throw up that damage chart link? You guys like to toy with the noobish huh?

There's another link in the sticky at the top of this forum.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...nics-id674.php
It oversimplifies the equation a bit, but it's a lot easier than going through the whole equation just to find the difference between 14 and 15 Swordsmanship.

Quote:

Savio- how exactly do you know that there is a "disheartening amount" of 16Str warriors?

One warrior with 16 Strength is one too many.

Well, okay, I really dislike people running Sentinel's in PvE because it implies the only reason they have high Strength is to wear Sentinel's.

I Phoenix I · Jan 12, 2007, 11:41 PM // 23:41

To sum it up, Strength does no activate on normal swings. It only activates on attack skills. That makes Strength in a way useless.

Also, running 16 in Strength is a total waste of attribute points. The highest reasonable amount would be about 10. Unless you use tons of Strength skills, I would just dump leftover points in Strength.

There is no such thing as 100% Armor Penetration. 100% Armor Penetration means that the damage ignores armor. That would mean that the damage is either Shadow Damage, Holy Damage, damage that doesn't mention type, and some other ones, including additional damage from attack skills. Obsidian Flame and Crystal Wave/Tenai's Crystals also ignore armor.

Having a lower-req weapon does not increase your damage. Having a higher mastery in that weapon does, however.

If you need help, don't forget that in a way, GuildWiki is your friend.

Ellenia · Jan 13, 2007, 03:07 AM // 03:07

wow, i didnt expect all this

thank you ppl

but in the last post, i cant agree with the following:

Quote:

100% Armor Penetration means that the damage ignores armor. That would mean that the damage is either Shadow Damage, Holy Damage, damage that doesn't mention type, and some other ones, including additional damage from attack skills. Obsidian Flame and Crystal Wave/Tenai's Crystals also ignore armor.

100% armor penetration means that target has armor level 0. Shadow damage, holy damage and others mentioned up there deals damage to a target as if target has armor level 60. if you hit with 50 holy damage, damage done to target is exactly 50. if you hit with 50 damage with armor penetration 100% actual damage would be about 150. But keep in mind that 100% armor penetration does not exist.

again, thank you all for your time

Savio · Jan 13, 2007, 03:33 AM // 03:33

As an additional note, Holy damage doesn't inherently ignore armor - Judge's Insight, Heart of Holy Flame, and Avatar of Balthazar cause your attacks to deal Holy damage. All skills that cause Holy damage ignore armor though, although that is more because they're skills and not because of the damage type itself.

Armor-ignoring damage just bypasses the whole armor portion of the damage equation - it doesn't make armor 60 or 0 or whatever you think it should be. To explain armor-ignoring damage that way just confuses people and makes them start asking "what does armor penetration do to that 60 armor?"

jana_the_stranger · Jan 13, 2007, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Your "opinion" is wrong. If you want max damage, you go with 16 in your weapon attribute. Low-requirement weapons being stronger is a myth.

not stronger, you just dont need that much attributes on it.

So if i check that list when you have a req 8 sword and you have 8 swordmanship you wont be able to do the same damage as a sword with 12 req when you have 12 on it?

Kakumei · Jan 13, 2007, 09:39 AM // 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by jana_the_stranger

So if i check that list when you have a req 8 sword and you have 8 swordmanship you wont be able to do the same damage as a sword with 12 req when you have 12 on it?

Pretty much yeah.

VGJustice · Jan 13, 2007, 09:40 AM // 09:40

[edit] disregard, plx

Yanman.be · Jan 13, 2007, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by jana_the_stranger

not stronger, you just dont need that much attributes on it.

So if i check that list when you have a req 8 sword and you have 8 swordmanship you wont be able to do the same damage as a sword with 12 req when you have 12 on it?

jana, for the last time: req only matters if you do not meet it. And if you don't meet it, you do starter damage.

If you DO meet the req, your damage depends on your weapon mastery, not the requirement.

The charts never mentioned requirements.

Xeones The Great · Jan 13, 2007, 01:46 PM // 13:46

btw, armor penetration does not lower foe's armor, it penetrates through it. so, at 16 str and 20% sundering, its 36% penetration. against 80 armor, it would penetrate through 36% of it, leaving 51 of it. so say your attack would deal 20 dmg to 80 armor. with 36% sundering, against 51 armor, it would deal almost double, maybe like 35. i hope this helped.

i think below requirement, u actually do exactly half the damage. for instance 15-22 would be 8-11. thats what ive learned.

Savio · Jan 13, 2007, 04:47 PM // 16:47

About reqs:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=104524

Damn Search took forever.

jana_the_stranger · Jan 13, 2007, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

jana, for the last time: req only matters if you do not meet it. And if you don't meet it, you do starter damage.

If you DO meet the req, your damage depends on your weapon mastery, not the requirement.

The charts never mentioned requirements.

well for me thats really stupid. If you have a sword with 8 req or 1 with 12 and you meet the req exacly you have to do same BASIC-damage. If you have higher on it, well you still have to do the same amount of BASIC-damage.

MegaMouse · Jan 13, 2007, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Using these skills you can get 76% armor penetration. 100% if I can find the skills:

Judges Insight +20% armor penetration
Primal Rage +20% armor penetration
Perfect sundering mod +20% armor Penetration (granted not all the time)
16 points in Strength +16% armor Penetration

I can't find the last skill that will take you to 96% but I am still looking. When I find it I will edit this.

Mega Mouse

Savio · Jan 13, 2007, 08:54 PM // 20:54

MegaMouse, read post #15.

jana, everybody's tried to explain politely to you how requirements work. If you want to have a different opinion, that's fine, just keep it off this forum until you have proof.

req 8 sword with 8 swordsmanship = (15-22) * .71 = 11-16
req 8 sword with 12 swordsmanship = (15-22) * 1 = 15-22
req 8 sword with 16 swordsmanship = (15-22) * 1.15 = 17-25

req 12 sword with 8 swordsmanship = (7-11) * .71 = 5-8
req 12 sword with 12 swordsmanship (15-22) * 1 = 15-22
req 12 sword with 16 swordsmanship = (15-22) * 1.15 = 17-25

I Phoenix I · Jan 13, 2007, 09:05 PM // 21:05

MegaMouse, you can't have the 16% from Strength because Strength AP only activates on Attack Skills and Primal Rage disables all skills (including Attack Skills). That means you can't count something like Penetrating Chop or some other skill that gives AP.

jana_the_stranger · Jan 13, 2007, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

MegaMouse, read post #15.

jana, everybody's tried to explain politely to you how requirements work. If you want to have a different opinion, that's fine, just keep it off this forum until you have proof.

no i want anet the fix it

Jan 13, 2007, 03:33 AM // 03:33	#29
Savio Teenager with attitude Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]	As an additional note, Holy damage doesn't inherently ignore armor - Judge's Insight, Heart of Holy Flame, and Avatar of Balthazar cause your attacks to deal Holy damage. All skills that cause Holy damage ignore armor though, although that is more because they're skills and not because of the damage type itself. Armor-ignoring damage just bypasses the whole armor portion of the damage equation - it doesn't make armor 60 or 0 or whatever you think it should be. To explain armor-ignoring damage that way just confuses people and makes them start asking "what does armor penetration do to that 60 armor?" __________________ People are stupid.

Jan 13, 2007, 04:47 PM // 16:47	#35
Savio Teenager with attitude Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]	About reqs: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=104524 Damn Search took forever. __________________ People are stupid.

Jan 13, 2007, 08:54 PM // 20:54	#38
Savio Teenager with attitude Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]	MegaMouse, read post #15. jana, everybody's tried to explain politely to you how requirements work. If you want to have a different opinion, that's fine, just keep it off this forum until you have proof. req 8 sword with 8 swordsmanship = (15-22) * .71 = 11-16 req 8 sword with 12 swordsmanship = (15-22) * 1 = 15-22 req 8 sword with 16 swordsmanship = (15-22) * 1.15 = 17-25 req 12 sword with 8 swordsmanship = (7-11) * .71 = 5-8 req 12 sword with 12 swordsmanship (15-22) * 1 = 15-22 req 12 sword with 16 swordsmanship = (15-22) * 1.15 = 17-25 __________________ People are stupid.

Jan 12, 2007, 09:53 PM // 21:53	#24
Horseman Of War Desert Nomad Join Date: Jun 2006 Guild: The Cult of Doom Profession: P/	wow it took 2 pages just to throw up that damage chart link? You guys like to toy with the noobish huh? Savio- how exactly do you know that there is a "disheartening amount" of 16Str warriors? You must hang around some very odd pug spots. All numbers aside, the OP could have been presented this information in a much less cynical manner.

Jan 12, 2007, 09:56 PM // 21:56	#25
jana_the_stranger Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2006 Location: belgium	well in my opinion when you have req of weapon it doesnt matter how much you have 9 or 16, you still have to do same damage. Only your skills may be more powerfull with higher attribute but a well good to know

Jan 12, 2007, 11:41 PM // 23:41	#27
I Phoenix I Jungle Guide Join Date: Jan 2007 Guild: The Elite Lords of Chaos [LoC] Profession: R/	To sum it up, Strength does no activate on normal swings. It only activates on attack skills. That makes Strength in a way useless. Also, running 16 in Strength is a total waste of attribute points. The highest reasonable amount would be about 10. Unless you use tons of Strength skills, I would just dump leftover points in Strength. There is no such thing as 100% Armor Penetration. 100% Armor Penetration means that the damage ignores armor. That would mean that the damage is either Shadow Damage, Holy Damage, damage that doesn't mention type, and some other ones, including additional damage from attack skills. Obsidian Flame and Crystal Wave/Tenai's Crystals also ignore armor. Having a lower-req weapon does not increase your damage. Having a higher mastery in that weapon does, however. If you need help, don't forget that in a way, GuildWiki is your friend.

Jan 13, 2007, 09:40 AM // 09:40	#32
VGJustice Desert Nomad Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Tyria, cappin' ur bosses Guild: Boston Guild [BG] Profession: R/W	[edit] disregard, plx

Jan 13, 2007, 01:46 PM // 13:46	#34
Xeones The Great Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: American District 1 Guild: NDR\|\|\|We are recruiting\|\|\|PM me	btw, armor penetration does not lower foe's armor, it penetrates through it. so, at 16 str and 20% sundering, its 36% penetration. against 80 armor, it would penetrate through 36% of it, leaving 51 of it. so say your attack would deal 20 dmg to 80 armor. with 36% sundering, against 51 armor, it would deal almost double, maybe like 35. i hope this helped. i think below requirement, u actually do exactly half the damage. for instance 15-22 would be 8-11. thats what ive learned.

Jan 13, 2007, 08:17 PM // 20:17	#37
MegaMouse Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: south mississippi Guild: Warriors Of Melos WOM Profession: E/N	Using these skills you can get 76% armor penetration. 100% if I can find the skills: Judges Insight +20% armor penetration Primal Rage +20% armor penetration Perfect sundering mod +20% armor Penetration (granted not all the time) 16 points in Strength +16% armor Penetration I can't find the last skill that will take you to 96% but I am still looking. When I find it I will edit this. Mega Mouse

Jan 13, 2007, 09:05 PM // 21:05	#39
I Phoenix I Jungle Guide Join Date: Jan 2007 Guild: The Elite Lords of Chaos [LoC] Profession: R/	MegaMouse, you can't have the 16% from Strength because Strength AP only activates on Attack Skills and Primal Rage disables all skills (including Attack Skills). That means you can't count something like Penetrating Chop or some other skill that gives AP.